George Zimmerman and His Gun
An Eyes for Lies reader today who wishes to remain anonymous sent me this picture (no longer available) and pointed out where George Zimmerman indicates his gun is during the fight with Trayvon Martin.
He clearly indicates his gun is not on his hip–where it would be easily accessible. Instead, he shockingly and surprisingly indicates its on his BACK SIDE.
If Trayvon Martin was on top of George, as he claims, it would (A) be much harder to see –especially in the dark–remember they were in the dark, and (B) George could have easily stopped Trayvon from getting the weapon by rolling on his side crushing Martin’s fingers.
The second point this reader made was that if his gun was on his backside, as he indicates, George couldn’t easily grab the weapon without Trayvon noticing and going for it. It would have been an awkward grab and hard to grab!! It would have been a struggle, which George doesn’t remotely speak about or show in his re-enactment.
See this video here — go to Video 2. Start at time marker 5:21.
George Zimmerman has been caught in lie after lie, but it appears this case is not about the truth or lies. I’ve come to accept that, sadly.
Very revealing, ty for sharing with us.
Wow, how could the prosecution not have used this.
Eyes,
I agree that GZ’s indication in the photo of where the holster was along with being straddled make it much harder to get the gun, as does his story about TM seeing and grabbing it …
But then I am left having to counter that very real and plausible evidence with an alternative which makes even LESS sense to me. So, it becomes easier to believe GZ somehow managed to pull his gun out while on his back while screaming for help.
The alternative in my mind is:
GZ was on top, TM was yelling for help. And thus GZ had succeeded in “not letting these punks get away”. Because the ‘punk’ kid is trapped beneath the more powerful GZ.
Cops or neighbors would be there within seconds to help further secure the ‘punk’ kid. And then wonder of wonder, miracle of miracles, GZ shoots him anyhow.
Much much harder for me to believe–even with all his vigilantism and lies.
I think GZ had his gun out before the tussle and TM probably tried to get the gun away from GZ and in the process got shot.
I wish that I had been able to follow the entire trial so so I could hear the forensic evidence regarding logistics of the angle of the wound. Anyone care to share? Is it really true that the prosecution did not use this at trial or perhaps they intend to use it in their closing arguments or summation.
PCF,
I thought they said 90 degree angle.
I think this is what you are referring to:
Source: http://news.yahoo.com/photos/defense-counsel-mark-omara-gestures-while-describing-possible-photo-183412197.html
Russ,
Yeah, that’s one. Numerous others I have seen say it would be almost impossible to shoot at 90 degrees.
Here’s another snippet:
“The fatal gunshot, Guy reminded defense witness Dennis Root, was fired at a 90-degree angle into Martin’s body. “Wouldn’t that be consistent with Travyon Martin getting off of George Zimmerman and George Zimmerman raising the gun and firing it?” Guy asked Root, a use-of-force expert.
“It could be consistent with any kind of movement … We weren’t there so the info that we have is George Zimmerman’s statement,” he said.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/10/justice/zimmerman-trial
I think some of your analysis are really good and insightful but I believe you’re really baised in regards to the George Zimmerman case, you must not have liked ZImmerman’s character from the get go, a bit closed minded on this matter.
If you take anything at face value then Tracy Martin did not recognize his sons voice at first so it wasn’t Trayvon screaming for help on the recording by your logics.
“It appears this case is not about the truth or lies. I’ve come to accept that, sadly.”
No it is about evidence about cold hard facts and what you can or can’t prove, it’s how your justice system works.
Where do you explain away Zimmerman’s injuries in all of this, Zimmerman has his gun drawn and somehow Trayvon can and has the foolish courage to assault him clip his nose eyes and back of the head before he shoots him.
GZ wanted to shoot him because he was black, that is why he called the police before hand and thanked god when they told him the whole incident was videotaped because he had this all planned out.
Maybe he even clipped his own eyes nose and back of his head.
It is sad people think this is more likely than that it could have been an very unfortunate incident they always have to blow things out of proportion, you’re either black or white good or evil.
No wonder there is still racism over there and Zimmerman gets the devil and Martin the saint, hadn’t there been a life lost it would be hilarious and laughable how the media has scrambled your little brains like eggs and duped you with the malicious and racist angle making an seemingly unfortunate incident into a media spectacle and crime.
Now the ignorance just makes the rest of the world weep.
Eyes,
To determine bias or prejudice, a team of scientists from Harvard has created a test. Please let me know what you think of this:
https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/selectatest.html
First they gather a baseline response by, for example, showing you pictures of European or African American faces. Each time you see a face, you respond on the keyboard to indicate which category it fits into. They average your response time.
Then they set up two new categories of Good and Bad, and words appear in the middle of the screen (evil, joy, happiness, fear) that you are to categorize as Good or Bad. They average your response time.
Then they set up two new categories European/Bad, AfricanAmerican/Good, and words or faces flash on the screen. They average your response time.
The theory goes, the longer (in milliseconds) it takes you to associate Good words with AfricanAmerican/Good, as compared to your average response time when the categories were just Good/Bad, the more prejudice you are, simply speaking.
I find it fascinating. Tests are also set up for Religion, Gender, etc.
I’ve seen this and its great. I was thrilled to find out I am not prejudice 🙂
Eyes,
Wow, I’m impressed. Equally unimpressed with my own results–which the test actually warns you about in advance: “You may not like what this test tells you about yourself.” Though the one thing I have going for me is awareness, which allows for recognition and corrections as I go along.
I don’t think being prejudice is wrong per se (if you’re brought up in a society and don’t “have a chance” to start evaluating your thoughts and feelings until adulthood).
But rather if you give yourself a chance to recognize and change, and are given a chance by others, and are helped in changing instead of the usual “corrective action” taken by those supposedly not in recognition of their own prejudice, which is to jump on the politically correct bandwagon and castigate and ostracize.
Think of how the alcoholics, bums, were treated and laughed about years ago. Then along came AA, and people were helped.
Can you imagine if there were an “AA” type attitude for people with prejudice, instead of what I often see now, which is people taking that as their own queue to feel enlightened and non-“ignorant”.
Awareness is the first step to change! You are being honest with yourself, which is also a key step. That’s awesome, WTTL.
I’m thankful you aren’t either!
I clearly see baise and prejudice against Zimmerman and you don’t have to be an expert to read that.
What really, really bugs me about this photo is that his right arm is dangling there. If he was reenacting a scuffle on the ground, his right arm would have been in a defense posture. He doesn’t remember that. He remembers reaching back for his gun, while he was standing up. I think he un-holstered when he got out of the car.
I agree about the gun — it was out long before he admits it–hands down.
Eyes,
I wish I didn’t respect your opinion so much … you’re challenging everything I have come to believe. @#$%!!!
1. Prosecution has no evidence whatsoever nor did they prove that Zimmerman acted with ill will.
2. Witnesses have testified they heard Zimmerman scream for help and that Trayvon Martin was on top of George Zimmerman and that Trayvon was assaulting him, his injuries although minor back his story, beside the gunshot wound Trayvon Martin had no injuries while Zimmerman shows injuries that point to assault.
3.How you interpret the stand your ground law and right to self defense.
4. How you interpret your irresponsible gun laws and concealed carry laws in a country where every moron and nuttjob can own an AR assault rifle.
5.How you interpret and are duped by the racial spin media has given to this unfortunate event riling up the public against eachother.
6.The whole world is looking at your country and people in awe that you with your culture of ultra voilence are seriously shocked by the things that happend in Boston and the movie theathre shooting Columbine etc, well what did you expect with your voilent culture and insane laws where every psychopath can legally own a firearm.
7.How you Americans cream in your pants with such public trails like Casey Anthony OJ Simpson and Jody Arias you people love this it makes you feel better then others it gives your life meaning again and makes you blind to and forget about the economic crisis your country is facing. You make a crime out of an unfortunate event and an unfortunate event out of a crime, you just love the drama, as the world turns they say
Please, I beg you, declare your country. I don’t need drama at this point, just a field day.
Ha, ha!
Eyes,
I just thought of something regarding this, and reading about an even more direct or prolonged struggle for the gun … given your idea that the gun “was out long before he admits it.”
The state, via lack of TM’s DNA on the gun, is having trouble believing TM ever touched the gun–even in the limited way GM said TM had reached for it while GZ was on his back, let alone that there was a potentially protracted struggle with/for the gun.
Eyes: “I think GZ had his gun out before the tussle and TM probably tried to get the gun away from GZ and in the process got shot.”
I can’t even talk about it.
How did his head get all scratched up if Martin didn’t fight him?
Eyes… I used to have respect for you but now you just smack of confirmation bias. I’m sorry to see you go down this path.
LFMAO “Are you biased? Do you take that into consideration when searching for the truth?”
Yes you are baised, you have a strong belief in something, and you will cling to it at all costs–and will even disregard the truth repeatedly. How true.
Serino, who unsuccessfully recommended that manslaughter charges be filed against Zimmerman soon after the shooting, said Zimmerman appeared to be relieved when told him the shooting had been videotaped.
“Thank God,” Zimmerman replied.
“George Zimmerman has been caught in lie after lie, but it appears this case is not about the truth or lies. I’ve come to accept that, sadly.”
The only time he was proven to be a liar was at his bail hearing over his financial situation not mentioning the donations he had recieved, I think it is really weak to present him as an habitual liar with no evidence as you do.
You assume he’s lying about where he reached and you present it as being fact while you don’t consider it a mistake it’s just your assumption. I think he is lying but I don’t present that as fact and I consider that he could have made a mistake. I can’t prove neither though..
This is like reading Zimmerman’s prosecution in your own kangaroo court, what’s with all the subjectiveness in your Zmmerman articles you sound really emotional.
With your analysis of the Amanda Knox interview for example you said she was nodding yes while saying no, and in the interview one can see that she did nod yes.
You also said this was an indication of deceptive behavior, and criminal psychology will tell one of this possibility also, you always presented it clearly as your objective opinion and I respected that even if I don’t always agree.
But with the Zimmerman case it’s like you’re trying to shove your opinion about Zimmerman’s guilt down our throat it seems based on emotional feelings mostly, instead of merely making smart suggestions or reasonable assumptions and presenting it as your opinion based on reason rationality facts and evidence.
I know it was dark that night, but how could people watching the shadowed figures in the dark not be able to see the direction of the gun blast, and then whether the person who was on the top fall off, and the bottom guy get up, or the top guy get up, and the bottom guy continue to lay there?
That doesn’t take a flood light … where were these witnesses who saw ‘everything’ else?
A horrid injustice was avoided by six jurors who could see
plainly what fair-minded observers saw during the trial: The
prosecutors had a shabby case and it didn’t take long to figure that
out.
What I could never understand during the trial is why no one pointed out that Zimmerman did not have mud, grass or even smears in the blood on the back of his head. He claims to have been on his back having been mounted yet, the clear blood pattern ran downward and forward around the nape of his neck. Indicating him as the person on top. Even if the blood pattern was only this way due to his
5:21 – Zimmerman: “I had my firearm on my right-side hip.” He seems to indicate it was on the *side*, not the *back-side*. When I look at the video and consider all 3-4 sentences of his description, he seems to be referring to his side, not back-side.
Eyes, I tend to talk differently when I’m walking. I have more pauses, and I don’t always
keep a smooth flow of thought, because I’m distracted my environment and other motor activity. Zimmerman isn’t exactly sitting in a studio where he can focus on the questions. I would think that affects what he says and how he talks.
Personally, I don’t think Zimmerman is racist. He didn’t bring up race until the 911 operator asked him to identify TM as white, black, or hispanic. But yes, he should’ve left TM alone, and TM shouldn’t have jumped Zimmerman. But *both* were acting out of fear and ignorance in the dark.
Please don’t flame me for my honest comments. This is a safe place for honest dialogue, and major props to Eyes for keeping it this way.
I can’t imagine you being flamed for this comment. It’s respectful, it’s honest, you explain what you’re thinking and why. You didn’t directly ask a question, but one is implied and it’s a legitimate one. I’d address it myself if I were more awake and cogent right now, but it’s past my bed time.
I’m with you on your props to Eyes for maintaining the quality of dialog on her site. It’s a rare gem on the internet.