Dateline: Father or Son?
Did you catch Dateline last week? The show was called “True Lies”. It was about the murder of Diane Kyne. Both her husband and son were home when she was murdered, and both called 911 and both pointed the finger at the other.
I believe one person stands out as the killer without question. But before I share my thoughts, I thought I’d take a vote.
Who do you think committed this murder? Diane’s son, or her husband? Vote below.
[polldaddy poll=8813092]
I knew this would have people divided. 😉
Where are your comments? Or are they still to come?
I posted them in a new post.
I think the husband. Listening to the 911 calls, the son’s call sounds fast flowing and purely moving from fear and shock and in the moment. Dad’s 911 call is halting and has the high pitched sorrow sounds that I would believe, naturally, would occur later… but not right in the moment of finding a loved one dead and the assailant, a family member, right there and potentially dangerous. The son’s call sounded more naturally like an emergency. In statements the son has made, he stated proactively (not emotionally, but at least emphatically), that he did not kill his mom. The husband as he was talking had to be asked the question did you kill her, to which he raised his eyebrows and said he had not. Something seemed off in his voice inflections and the raised eyebrows, as if trying to appear sincere and convincing. When the husband talked about Diane, he seems too cool and collected. Finally, 8 months before meeting Diane, the husband had lost his first wife in a tragic accident… I think she hit her head by the pool. When he talked about her, finding her, and raising the kids after, it was so emotionless and almost matter of fact. I had chills. Serial deadly occurances with wives.
Yea, a few shoulder shrugs and head shakes at the wrong time. His voice is seriously fake. If I were in his situation, I think I would have been in a disbelief rush frenzy state not as whinny calm like he displayed. My heart just can’t take in what just happened. LOL I believed the jury when he said the eyes tells it all.
I voted after watching the first 2 mintues of this program. 1) The husband already has a dead wife that he discovered / pulled out the pool. Suspicious. 2) The husband doesn’t seem to register any emotion or loss or anger or grief. He projects that he has a story that he wants to get across. 3) The son seems emotional.
Then after watching the first 15 minutes…the son recounts seeing the mother’s black and blue face. Then corrects and says it was just black and that the image was haunting. He claims to be fleeing for his life, fleeing from the murderer of his mother. He rememebers clearly the husband tapping him right on his scar. You can feel the emotion of what a small but pointed act of cruelty and control that way. Sinister. The son is able to recall what led up to the crime, how the husband was acting unusual and insistent. The husband has no details like this.
When the daughter recalls seeing her dad in the front lawn, holding his head – why wasn’t he rushing to his wife’s side?
The son’s call to 911 sounds full of emotion, panic. The husband’s call to 911 sounds lethargic, depressed. Maybe because he didn’t get to kill the son, as well. He was depressed because the plan didn’t work. No urgency about saving his wife. No needing to check on her because he knew she was dead.
Just my initial thoughts.
I am now at minute 15 … so the husband has collected on insurance policies for: death of wife #1 ($250k), death of wife #2 (policies amounting to 750k), his automotive business burned down, an investment property also burned down…Oh, please. HUSBAND.
I voted the husband. He called the son into the bedroom to “get him into the room” to discover her and leave traces of himself. Also because the first wife’s death is very very suspicious and I can’t believe his story was sold so easily to authorities for that wife! The only emotion the husband displayed was adamant insistence on the sons guilt. And what motive did the son have? If his motive was that they were going to kick him out, he’d kill the step dad, not his mom.
Man….hardly anyone believes the husband!!!! How is he walking free???? I did not believe him for the beginning…
The husband’s 911 call sounds fake, exaggerated heavy breathing. Son’s sounds like genuine panic. Husband is scarily emotionless also.
the liar is the son
Within the first ninety second intro I heard the son say, “…but, that’s not true,” and the husband say, “I didn’t do it.” I thought to myself, “Could it really be that simple and obvious, sometimes? Did I just pick a killer in under ninety seconds and on two sentences? That husband’s clip was taken from the interview that happens at 25:00. It goes, “And the reason you should not be looked at for her murder as well?” Husband, “I didn’t do it.”
And so while I didn’t really have the time to watch the episode, once I heard TWO DUELING 911 CALLS, I was hooked, and so I watched! I don’t know if I was able to let my initial thought let me still keep an open mind, but the next forty minutes didn’t do anything to change my mind. If fact, there were numerous things to solidify my initial thought. The son did it.
I changed my mind. Humph.
The son did it. The second jury got fooled by his cleaned up behavior and by “looking them in the eye” as instructed by his attorneys.
The husband is a murderer, clear as day. The son speaks with conviction, Bill speaks without emotion, going flat on things that should draw an emotional feeling. The son’s crystal clear recounting of the events before the murder (not how far he proceeded into the room in a state of shock) give large credence to his story (as well the polygraph). Also, if Bill was the murderer, I believe he must have done so in the past, given how fast he created a story/staged the murder. His ex-wifes death is very suspicious now.
Good points!
I voted “I cannot decide”. I mean the ex dead wife, life insurance, failed lie detector, cold body. Jeez, that should say the husband did it. But what about the blood, glasses and sandals and the son changing his story? First he says he’d never seen the sandals and then says, oh yes, I wore them around the house. And he is not very likable to me. What a brat! Calling his mother those names, living at home, hogging the computer. I’m conflicted.
I saw sadness when Kevin described seeing his mother on the ground in the bedroom, her face black and blue. He does have a fairly expressionless face, but mostly i see anger (because who wouldn’t be in his situation). I get such a creepy vibe from Bill. Bill seems way too set on defending himself and not upset enough about the fact that his wife is dead. He seems more upset by the idea of being accused.
Example: “I did not lie” rather than “I didn’t kill my wife.”
I think Bill saw an opportunity to frame him and took it. I hope they investigate his previous wife’s murder.
Just by looking at the picture–that’s actually all I know about the case–I’d say it’s the person in the picture: he looks younger than her so I assume it’s her son.
She’s got her head way tilted away from this individual, and he doesn’t look “present” or in concert with what is happening at the moment–he’s got his own inner mind subconsciously whirling.
It’s also weird to me how the dad likes to dodge the question about entering the room. It’s like something he wants to protect from the others. He even change his statement again regarding the room. I just can’t sit straight watching the dad and daughter being interviewed…it’s just so, unnatural.
I think you have to take a step back here and consider motive. What did the son have to gain from killing his mother? What did the husband have to gain from killing his wife? The son really had nothing to gain. The husband had 750k and a SECOND motive that dateline and I think even the son’s own defense team overlooked. Bill wanted Kevin out of the house. Kevin’s mom was not going to let that happen. She might go through with it for a time but then let him back home. It happened before and it would have happened again. Take Bill’s own words about how she wouldn’t have wanted Kevin to go to jail for life for murdering her. You mean to tell me, Bill, that this woman who loved her own son so much that she would hardly want to see him punished for her own murder wouldn’t let him back in the house? That’s illogical. You know what else is illogical? Bill’s story about how he didn’t check if his wife was still alive. You know how we know it’s illogical? Bill SAID it was illogical in his interview with police. Then he changed his story to make it more logical. All of which was in the interview.
Bill’s had a wife die before. Bill had 750k to gain. Bill could get rid of Kevin for good by killing his one ally in the world. Bill lied to the police and admitted his story was illogical.
Kevin had nothing to gain. He lost his one ally. He lost a place to live. If Kevin was killing his mom because he was being kicked out, why didn’t he kill Bill too? Or just kill Bill? Why would his mom be the primary target of that motive? It’s not really logical.
Bill had a wife die before and collected an insurance policy. He had another wife die and collected her insurance policy. He changed his story and admitted his story was illogical. You also have an eyewitness in Kevin pointing the finger at Bill. There’s people on death row for a whole lot less than that.
I agree with all of your points. It’s a shame the prosecutor won’t move forward and put Bill on trial for first degree murder. The prosecutor is IMO a fool who can’t risk looking wrong so instead lets a killer roam free.
Having been a juror on a murder trial, I was instructed by the judge that a lack of motive was not a basis for finding someone not guilty, and that a clear motive was not a basis for finding someone guilty.
I’m not suggesting that a motive is a basis for finding someone guilty or that a lack of motive is a basis for finding someone not guilty. What I’m saying is that if we’re trying to figure out if someone is honest or dishonest, you have to consider what reasons they’d have to be honest or dishonest. Applying logic.
I said we should consider motive not that we should base all our conclusions on it. My conclusion is not simply based on the fact that Bill had a stronger motive, it’s that his behavior is more suspicious and his story isn’t believable. Kevin’s story is much easier explained away by innocent explanations.
I believe the husband did it. To start with, I have to wonder why his first wife was out by the pool in the middle of the night. What made him get up to find her and pull her out of the pool? His story doesn’t add up. A man wouldn’t chase his son, who he had just pulled off of his wife. He would see if the wife needed an ambulance. He seems more like a man in a rage than a man, who is seriously concerned about his wife lying on the bedroom floor. The son could have been dealt with later. His story is full of words like actually and really. He seems to be trying a little too hard to convince his listeners. The son is more straight-forward with his answers. I believe the husband killed his wife, then planted the son’s shoe and other evidence to frame the son. I am just not buying the husband’s story!
It was that high pitched voice on the 911 call of the husband that red flagged me. I couldn’t get past that, and the fact that the kid passed the polygraph and the father did not. (I know that Eyes doesn’t put much stock in them.)
I remember Eyes saying in the past, when the pitch in the voice changes into a high pitch like that, red flag.
Add in all the insurance policies, TWO dead wives, TWO fires, you have a pattern. I think the blood from the son got on the wife during the attack by the father on the son.
JMHO.
“I don’t think she’s breathing… be quick!”
But he never went back to check on her? Is he just standing in the yard staring at her bedroom window and accepting the death of the love his life? Please.
The son is slightly off, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him commit a violent crime, but in this instance his voice is full of anger and pain when he talks about his mom’s death. I think it’s interesting when Kevin says that Bill tapped him on the scar and it hurt. That’s a memory, that really happened, and Kevin remembers it because it annoyed him. I don’t think Kevin is smart enough socially to recognize the importance of inserting true details like that to make a story more believable. I think that detail establishes a timeline that puts Kevin on the couch when his mother was murdered.
It is important to remember that the son had brain surgery and may have some degree of frontal lobe damage which could greatly alter his affect.
I’m voting on the husband being the murderer. So many of you have already made many excellent examples of why I am picking him! Can’t wait for Mrs. Eyes opinion to see where we are at with this one!
I vote husband. Slightly off topic… why did Diane move into the house where Mrs. Kyne #1 had died? I think I would like a new house together, even if marriage #1 had ended without tragedy. I’d definitely be uncomfortable around the pool.
After watching the first 30 seconds and only listening to about 3 seconds of the 2 911 calls I’m leaning on the son. I’ll post more and read the other comments after I finish watching.
Finally got around to watching more. Father’s story makes sense, in the heat of the moment type stuff. Son’s doesn’t. Why does the father kill his mother, lure him away from the couch to the bedroom by insisting she needs to talk to him, then put him in a choke hold? Why not just put him in the choke hold while he was on the couch?
I’ll tell you why, because then he would have no explanation for how he knew his mother was dead. His choice of stories were “he lured me to the murder scene to attempt to murder me” or “Father makes some bizarre proclamation that he just murdered my mother and now he’s going to murder me”.
I don’t think the son’s blood evidence is that big a concern. Did you know the second most common reason for convicting an innocent person is forensic blood evidence.
It concerned me because it showed up in an odd place to show up (someone else’s room as opposed to a bathroom or kitchen). Now that I think about it if his mother was in a life and death struggle with him his skin DNA would be on her, probably under her nails at the least. And if his blood did get on her it wouldn’t be in 3 tiny drops like that, it would be smears and smudges. It would be more consistent with a struggle with the husband near the entry to the room.
And if dad got some of sons blood on his hands due to them struggling..he could have shook his hand off on his wife to help make it appear like the son.
I am just watching this a good month after this post…
I really can’t decide…
But the one thing that’s bugging me is the blood.
But let’s say the son is telling the truth, and they struggled (son and step dad) it’s possible dad got some of the sons blood on him. The son ran off So let’s say he had some of his son blood on his hand, he could walk into the room and shake his hand over the wife’s body providing a few blood splatters. It would take seconds.
And again while I’m not convinced 100% it was dad, I do think what are the odds that a person has had 2 wives die and 2 accidents to your property.. 4 insurance claims already collected by the time she is murdered.
The son had nothing to gain. And would really not have a place to live once she died,
“They say she drowned”…. that was my first alarm bell.
100% the father did it. Simplest reason: he didn’t check to see if there was anything he could do to help her. The son didn’t either, but he did get a good look at her black & blue face and then immediately a madman was chasing him and trying to kill him too.
When someone you love appears to be dead, you go into denial and you’ll do anything to bring them back. Prop up their head. Check their airway. Perform CPR even if you aren’t sure you’re doing it correctly. Demand the EMTs perform a miracle. But Bill *assumed* she was dead so he figured he might as well get a head start on the grieving process. Seriously?
Bill did it. The son is just an awkward person, that’s all.
From the pictures I would have guessed the son. From the video (15 minutes is all I’ve watched), I would have guessed the husband lied. He really rubs me the wrong way, and that was before I saw the son speak. The son seems pretty angry and insistent, and described a much clearer picture of what he saw that day.
Interestingly the husband’s daughter’s comments were all sticking up for him.
If the detectives really wanted to figure this out for themselves quickly, after the separate interviews, I would’ve interviewed them together. Rarely done, but it would’ve worked.
Oooh! What a fascinating idea Paul!
I think they don’t do this because the guilty person could use stuff against the innocent person to build their case. I wouldn’t do this, personally.
Oh no, that’s not a recommended method. The idea of rushing to figure it out quickly or to save time is what leads to co-witnessing effects when witnesses are interviewed together and their testimony becomes intermingled and unreliable.
I cut to a part of the interview where the son was told about the polygraph test and said, “Did you kill you mother?” and the son nods and says, “Yes, exactly.” Maybe it’s out of context, but that freaked me out.
Nods and shakes are complex, and most people don’t understand human behavior to use them accurately. It’s not as simple as people have been lead to believe.
Son killed mother.
Watched video again. Now I think husband killed wife for insurance money and tried to frame son.
I believe the husband and the son are both telling some lies, but I believe the husband killed her. I do think the son was in the room after his mother was killed. That is why he could describe how his mother looked and and his blood and the other evidence were found in the room. I believe, however, that he lied about being in the room, because he was scared and trying to keep his distance from the murder site. I believe the son must have heard the fight that erupted between the husband and his mother, and he went in. I believe the fight that took place between the husband and son started in the bedroom. From the sound of the 9-1-1 call, the son had been trying to hold his own for some time. That may explain some of the delay in calling 9-1-1. He told the operator that he didn’t know how much longer he could hold out. I believe that the husband planned to kill the son, also, and then claim that he killed the son trying to protect his wife.
I believe that the son did need some more time to recoup from his brain surgery. The husband and his mother could have been having trouble over the amount of time that his recovery was taking. That could have triggered the show down, however, I think the plan had been in the making for awhile.
Changed my mind a few times with this. I’m leaning towards the father although if it was the son that wouldn’t shock me. Everything about the dad is suspicious to me he’s emotionless, the insurance claims in his past, his former wife’s death…..but the thing I really just can’t get past is the fact that he didn’t check on his wife after he claims to have pulled his son away. The shoes and the glasses could have been easily placed in the room to make it look like the son and the sons description of his mums blackened face would fit this also if the dad planned ahead and took some time to prepare the scene. I would be interested to know if when the paramedics arrived her face was that way. The daughter was also way over the top in defence of her dad. But I guess that’s understandable. It’s an intriguing case that’s for sure.
At first, I took a hard look at the son, but I then settled on the husband as the guilty party. Three or four things really caught my attention that could be the reason for the son to go into a rage and kill his mother. Strangling is usually a rage murder, I believe, and both men could have their reasons. Right off, the son tells us in no uncertain terms that he wasn’t raised by his mother. His grandmother raised him. The way he emphasizes this and the resentment I feel, as he makes this statement, gets my attention. I believe he loved his mother, but he has a lot of bitterness. I don’t know why this fact is considered by him to be important to her murder, but it makes me take notice. Also, he feels that he is being pushed out, again, before he feels healed enough to go. Once again, perhaps, he feels that she is letting him down.
Another thing that concerns me is the damage that may have happened to his brain due to his tumor and surgery. Some people have a tendency toward violence and rage when certain parts of their brain gets damaged. Then, we have his blood, and other evidence of his being in the room, which doesn’t go along with the rest of his story.
Even though, the son may have some reasons, I still believe the husband committed the murder, but I think he feels pretty smug and confidant that he won’t ever be convicted. A lot seems to happen in this man’s life that manages to benefit him financially. Even though, he may scoot by on this, he may get too sure of himself and wind up in trouble.
Son. I’m an amateur at this, but my reasons include (1) Paul Ekman’s opinion of polygraphs. One of the best parts of that TV show Lie To Me was when a law enforcement official with a supposedly infallible new lie detecting machine was asked to hold the egg that some ancient African tribe uses…, I expect that most ps’ic murderers, about to undergo a polygraph test, would naturally do the basic research that makes beating a polygraph test a near certainty- this has been widely explained elsewhere and perhaps on this excellent website too. (2) Son saying Yes sir and No Ma’m at key moments – so rehearsed, not spontaneous (3) context of son saying “he’s choking me” during 911 call (4) son’s facial expressions – son reminds me of various people like the cleaned up Jodi Arias we saw in court – I could name others but won’t (7) Paul Ekman’s opinion of the significance of looking people in the eye and my own personal experience in this field (8) son’s habit of saying just the right thing at the right time in the right way, in order to achieve his objective (9) independent witnesses of son’s behaviour prior to his mother’s sad death (10) lack of independent witnesses who know the family and support the son’s case (11) if any young woman asked me if she should go on a date with Kevin, I would advise her that there’s something about Kevin. (12) Eyesforlies’ opinion of polygraph tests (13) classic example of how to con a jury.
Be cautious, please. I believe the son is innocent.
and you would be wrong.. even as an expert, ot’s painfully obvious the son did it and he’s a pathological liar… started it from the point where he decided to lie on the 911 call
hmm, I just discovered Bill’s first wife was found floating in a pool 10 years prior? I still lean towards Kevin doing it because of the evidence but this new info on Bill’s first wife is concerning
But I thought its so painfully obvious?
true true… I think with the blood evidence, the shoes, the history of lying and the motive and the general confidence and comfort level of lying that the son displays seems to point towards him.
Kevin was cautioned by his lawyer to look directly at the jury when he testified. Perhaps, he wants to convince everyone that he isn’t guilt.
Do they ever address the injuries to Kevin and Bill? Did I miss it? It seems they would be significant if you were in a fight for your life with someone who had just murdered another.
This is what I am wondering, They did shows some scratches on the husband’s hands, but it seems that there would have been a lot more injuries to both men. Since some of the son’s blood drops were on his mother’s leg, there had to be an injury to the son of some kind. The husband;s DNA was found on his wife’s neck, however, and none of the son’s DNA was found on her neck.
The son, he’s weird and cold. No emotion really. Walks with an arrogance, stiff spine, chin pushed up. His expressions don’t match his words. He also is too direct and looking too straight at an interviewer before he answers. Very little inflection in his tone and movements. Creepy guy
He is difficult to read and has me question if he could have Aspergers… Please don’t judge people who give direct eye contact or not. It’s too nuanced to use as a clue.
I keep checking back every day for Eyes’ comments. I’m losing hope that she will ever weigh in!
I’m sorry. I have a sick family member with a virus and I’ve been distracted. Plan to get to it today.
Your remarks are worth waiting for. I can hardly wait to hear your comments on this case. The more I watch the interviews, the more clues I catch.
I believed Kevin. For one, he recalls perfectly how the altercation started, Bill tapped him on his scar. I thought that was an odd detail to make up. Also, Kevin called 911 first. I assume Bill called after once he realized Kevin was calling them. Kevin doesn’t strike me as the manipulative type. Bill definitely does. Also his history is a huge red flag.